Mahmud Ahmad lies in court, and his father contradicts himself

In my previous blog, I have outlined why and how Ahmadis believe that we Muslims are Kuffar for rejecting Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

In this entry, I will show you how it was none other than Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who caused this confusion. In his claim to prophethood, he made sure he was deceitful and two faced, but in his Takfeer, he clearly contradicted himself, and made it the case that we Muslims are kuffar to him. The two concepts link in together nicely, if we were to suppose MGA a prophet, then we must call whoever rejects him a disbeliever like Ahmadis do today. But nonetheless, this entry will highlight the contradiction, and then how Mahmud Ahmad lied in court. So pick up your calculator and note pad, that’s one more contradiction and one more lie.

Picking up from last week, Mahmud Ahmad carries on talking about Takfeer in the book ‘Truth about the split’. But now, he brings evidence from MGA to prove it

“After this, the article proceeded to quote passages from the writings of the Promised Messiahas to show that he regarded his deniers as kuffar. Some of the passages, quoted in the article, are reproduced here in brief: To the apostate Abdul Hakim of Patiala, he wrote: “At any rate, when the great God has revealed to me that every body whom my Call has reached and who has failed to accept my claim, is not a Muslim, and is liable to account before God, how can I at the instance of one individual, whose heart is steeped in a thousand darknesses, ignore the command of God. It is easier to cut off such a one from my Community. Accordingly from this date I hereby exclude you from the Community of my followers.” Following this, I proceeded to explain the purport of the above passage in the following words. “The above words apply not merely to those who take an active part in denouncing the Promised Messiahas; but every person who fails to accept him is not a Muslim.” P.147-8

So clearly, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad made Takfeer against Abdul Hakim and said ‘when the great God has revealed to me that every body whom my call has reached and who has failed to accept my claim, is not a Muslim’. Nice and clear. Ahmadis cannot run away from the fact that they’re the only Muslims left on earth.

Generally, out of naivety, Ahmadis would say MGA regarded Muslims as Muslims as long as they said the shahada as they quote this from his writings

‘From the very beginning it has been my faith that the rejection of my claim does not render anyone a kafir or dajjal… I do not call anyone kafir who pronounces the Kalima… If I am a Muslim in the Eyes of God, then those who call me kafir only render themselves kafir in accordance with the Holy Prophet’s edict in the matter… My faith in reality is that I do not regard any Muslim as kafir.’ (Tiryaqul Qulub, pp.258-260)

So here we see another contradiction. What do you do about this one?

Ahmadis questioned their master MGA regarding the Takfeer of Abdul Hakeem, and he gave them a wise answer

“Question: Huzoor-e-aali (Respected Mirza Ghulam) has mentioned in thousands of places that it is not at all right to call Kafir a Kalima-go (someone who recites the Kalima) and an Ahle-Qibla. It is quite obvious that except those Momineen who become Kafir by calling you (Mirza Ghulam) a Kafir, no one becomes a Kafir by merely not accepting you. However, you have now written to Abdul Hakeem Khan that anyone who has received my message and has not accepted me is no longer a Muslim. There is contradiction between this statement and your statements in previous books. Earlier in Tiriaq-ul-Quloob etc you had mentioned that no one becomes Kafir by not accepting you; now you are writing that by rejecting me he becomes a Kafir?!

Answer: This is strange that you consider the person who rejects me and the person who calls me Kafir as two different persons, whereas in the eyes of God he is the same type; because he who does not accept me is because he considers me a fabricator… apart from this, he who does not accept me, he does not believe in God and His Prophet as well, because there is God’s and his Prophet’s prophecy regarding me.” [Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 22, P. 167)

Just look at his futile logic. ‘Everyone who doesn’t accept me thinks I’m a fabricator’ . What if I thought he was mentally ill, what happens then? What if I thought he went crazy, what happens then? In all cases, he affirms the belief that those who call him kafir and those who reject him are the same.

But generally, this example really highlights where the essential flaws of Ahmadiyyat are. Like with everything else, they egoistically change something in the deen, but little do they know that they will eventually stumble upon a contradiction in the future.  Muslims take the hadith of the Takfeer metaphorically, and modernists and progressives as much as Ahamdis want to be are very happy of this hadith because it warns people of the severity of Takfeer. If the hadith is literal as MGA took it, then we’ll all be playing a game of whether someone is Kafir or not, and the cycle goes on, it would just be ridiculous to assume the hadith is literal, but MGA took it that way to annoy the Muslims.


Anyway, now that we have outlined the contradiction, let’s move onto how Ahamdis changed their views on this matter. Mahmud was called to court in 1954 following riots against Ahmadis. Now, it’s important to understand that everyone knew by this time the stance of Ahmadis on Non-Ahmadi Muslims, and the judge wanted to make sure that Mirza Mahmud Ahmad would leave court with humiliation. He wanted to make sure that everyone bares testimony to the fraud of the Ahmadiyya community.

Here are the extracts I got from an Ahmadi website. Be prepared, it’s about to get ugly


Mr Faruqi

Does not the denial of a true Prophet amount to kufr?

Mahmud Ahmad

Yes, it does amount to kufr. But kufr is of two kinds: one which throws a man out of the Millat ; the second which does not entail exclusion from the Millat. Denial of the Muslim Kalima is kufr of the first kind; while kufr of the second kind results from other minor denials, or wrong beliefs.

Mr Faruqi

Do you hold Mirza Sahib to be among the Mamurin, faith in whom is essential for qualifying a man to be called a Muslim?

Mahmud Ahmad

I have already answered this question before, a man who does not accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, he cannot be held to have gone out of the pale of Islam.

Mr Faruqi

Do you still hold the belief what you had written in the first chapter of A’ina-i-Sadaqat, page 35, that all those Muslims who did not yield a pledge of bai’atto Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, even if they had never heard of him, they are kafirs, and outside the pale of Islam?

“All such Muslims who did not swear allegiance to the promised Masih (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian), even though they did not hear the name of the Promised Masih, are Kafir and debarred from the fold of Islam.(A’ina-i-Sadaqat p.35)”

Mahmud Ahmad

It is evident from this statement itself that the people here I have in mind I take as Muslims. Therefore, when I use the word kafir, I have in my mind kafirs of the second kind which I have defined already, i.e., they are not driven or thrown out of the Millat. When I say they are outside the pale of Islam I have in my mind the view, by Mufradat-i-Raghib on page 240, where Islam has been shown to be of two kinds: one lower than the stage of Iman ; the other above the stage of Iman.


Oh my God, oh dear oh dear oh dear

I can’t believe what I just read


He first says he doesn’t believe that non-Ahmadi Muslims are outside of the fold of Islam. Then when Faruqi pressures him and quotes him saying ‘outside of the pale of Islam’ (and well done Ahmadis for replacing it with millat; it still has the same meaning), he gives a different interpretation to what is to be outside the pale of Islam. It’s interesting how he starts with ‘I have in mind’ indicating that prior to this event, he’d never mentioned any of this stuff. After he made explicit Takfeer, it took him over 50 years to explain what he meant by Non-Ahmadi Muslims not being Muslim.

With all this mayhem, Ahmadis were forced to take his first position on the matter as a result of the pressure from Hani Tahir. And like I said, Mahmud Ahmad clearly lied in court to run away from his Takfeer. Yet to this day, they are torn apart, neither can they say we are Muslim, nor can they say we are Non-Muslims. Such is the example of the lost.

And just wait, I got this off a Lahori website. Look at the lie here

Question: You have now stated in your testimony that the person who sincerely does not accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib still remains a Muslim. Have you held this view from the beginning?

Answer: Yes.

Subhanallah, so now he considers non-Ahmadi Muslims to be Muslims!

I’ll just drop this here quick

“It is our duty that we must not consider non-Ahmadis as Muslims, and we must not pray following them, because we believe that they are denying a prophet of Almighty God.” (Anwar-i Khilafat p. 90)


So Ahmadis, how does it feel to aspire to a desperate liar?


26 thoughts on “Mahmud Ahmad lies in court, and his father contradicts himself

  1. Dear true ahmadiyya
    You are a proud muslim but instead of propagating islam and unfolding its beaties you are kasting shit on oothers.Nowhere in your true islam is mentioned that you’ll be asked if you refuted the false prophets but surely you ‘ll be asked for what did you do for dawat e ilAllah.Maybe you think you serve islam by refuting false prophets but please let the go to hell because Allah do not give Hadaya to those whom He will not.

  2. Walaikum assalam

    I’m going to end this soon inshallah. Maximum January 2017. I’ve had enough and I’m tired.

    I’m still at university. I’m still a young boy, in fact, I’m still a teenager, but alhamdolillah, Allah has put passion in my heart for the deen.

    I’m still recovering from the scares left by Ahmadiyyat, but inshallah, soon enough, I’ll be up and running again.

    I intend on studying Islamic studies abroad.

    The religion of Allah takes dedication, it takes real wisdom. Only Allah can place the light in someone and make him humble. As for my situation, I’m no where near that, and I wish I could try harder, but like everyone else in this world, life is a test, and struggle and effort has to be endured in an ability to transform oneself.

    I can’t show the beauty of Islam when I haven’t tasted beauty.

    Ahmadis generally thrive on egotism, there’s no beauty in Ahmadiyyat, and when there’s no beauty in something, one would know it’s not from the creator whose light is beyond language itself.

    So for me to begin to talk about Islam is impossible at the moment. I’m only embarking on my journey, and if Allah wills, maybe he will open the doors of knowledge and self discipline me.

    Keep me in your prayers


  3. Salaam,
    I did`nt pay my salaam to you last time knowing that you do`nt say it to ahmadies but I am glad to notice that you not even said salaam to me but also asked me to remember you in my prayers.Looks like you belong to a good family with lots of Islamic values and passion for Deen,I admire your quest for Deen and for that you want to follow Islamic Studies to quench your thirst.Its none of my business to tell you what to do and what not but I tell you anyhow to concentrate yourself to your usual study and complete your thesis with glans.Of course in the meantime you keep your intresset for Islam intact and learn it more and moreYou seem to be a talented boy and you can achieve your goal inshallah but remember that religion should reflect in its believers in its true sense and when you see todays muslims around you you get a total disgusting picture of Islam.It has nothing to with Islam,something absolute different.I wonder where on earth you `ll study the Ìslamic Studies`?Saudi Arabia,Iran,Deoband +
    May Allah keep you under His paraply of benovolence.

  4. I would start the blog with some prayers, but I just don’t get the feeling of it, especially when I’m discussing Ahmadiyyat. Sometimes I begin with prayers, or end it with a prayer, but that’s if I feel the need to. There’s no need to make this a religiously orientated platform even though we are discussing theology.

    As for me giving the Salam. Obviously I have to give peace to my brothers. Whether it being Ahmadi or non. You should send peace on Ahmadis too, even if you find them on the wrong path.

    As for the state of Muslims. I don’t think it’s appropriate to comment on that here, and especially with the confines of the comment section. We have the good and we have the bad, as always.

    As for my studies. Allah knows best. I’m leaning towards an Ashari hanafi strand, but Allah knows best. I might change.

    I wouldn’t want to go and study in Saudi Arabia for obvious reasons.


  5. Bro….these Ahmadis have no idea what they are talking about..

    I will write a thorough essay on Ahmadiyya and Takfir that will cover all of these issues soon

  6. Salaam
    The topics you people are discussing are not new.It has been questioned and answered for hundred years now.You have right to say that you are not agree with the answer but keep on hammering on them is just nonsense.The issue is that you should clean your filthy threshould and make it trash-free.The whole world is pointing at you as terrorist and what not and you are busy with takfeer amongst you.You do`nt see any beauty in Ahamaddiyyat ok forgett it,but Islam is full of beauties go out and tell the world.
    1.Islam is not a barbaric religion and is not spread by sword.
    2.Real jihad is to fight against your ego.
    3.Islam means peace and universal brotherhood.
    4.Islamic state is seculer in its nature and commands for absolutte justice.
    5.Life stories of Rasoole karim and his exemplary character.
    Womens status,Hijab & niqab,blasphemy tolerence,respect for other religions and many many more.
    You youngsters are dedicated and motivated for research about religion so why not tell the world how beautiful Islam is and I assure you that you will appease your lord and get reward from Him in this world as well as on the other world.As for as the others matters like sects and cults,beheding of infidels and non believers is just waste of time and let Allah decide at judgement day..
    May Allah enhance your knowlege and enable your pen to do Jihade Akbar,

  7. Wassalm

    Hang on a second there

    What do u mean by ‘The issue is that you should clean your filthy threshold and make it trash-free’. Can u explain that for me please? This website is only dedicated for challenging Ahmadiyyat.

    Did I make Takfeer anywhere?

    Your talking to me like I spend hours on this. I have university work, Islamic education and other duties to do. I only started two months ago and I told you this wouldn’t last for more than two months and you are still not satisfied. I don’t spend 5% of my time on this blog, so please give it a rest. What are you doing big man? Have u shown the beauty of Islam? Or are you just here to troll around and make people sad about their activism for the truth.

    I’m proud of this blog, and I’m happy Allah has chosen me for this mission, and I’m happy I am doing this. You know how important it is to dismantle this cult? These people are literally stealing people’s money based on false notions of ‘we are peace’ and ‘we seek secular law and tolerance’. If Ahmadiyyat got power, they would have destroyed the world. Mirza ghulam Ahmad was pure evil who hated all people. Do u want me to stand buy and not expose his writings?

    A lot of innocent ahmadis out there still think Ahmadiyyat is expanding. They still think they are the saved sect, and still think we Muslims are out to kill them.

    Why are you pointing at us Muslims like we are one entity. As if a Sufi mystic is the same as a literalist salafists if I may call them that.

    1. Within a hundred years of islam’s arrival, the ‘jihad of the sword’ got us North Africa, India and all the way up to the south of France. Don’t forget the jihad of the martyrs who died in various wars to protect Islam. Why don’t you give them credit? Islam’s jihad was not like the crusade. It left no genocide or mass massacres. Rather it spread, and was taken up by the inhabitants as a social revolution. If it hadn’t been for jihad of the sword, you my friend would not be a Muslim. So ponder on that for a second, and thank Allah we had jihad, and our ancestors practised both inward and outward jihad.

    2. I agree. The inward transformation is something essential, although I don’t see how you slamming in inappropriate words and commenting with neo-rage like structure is any how a reflection of your practice of inward jihad.

    3. Islam means submission. It does not mean peace. It can also mean the return to Allah almighty. Bring me the theologians who interpreted Islam as peace, and the we can maybe consider it as a top priority. Peace comes after the inward transformation, and outward peace is a product of inward peace. What do u mean by universal brotherhood? Brotherhood among humanity or Muslims? If u mean to attack the takfeeris like Ahmadis and salafis, then I agree with you. We should focus on the things that unite us instead of the things that separate us.

    4. ‘Secular’ and ‘Absolute justice’ are both western constructs. So well done for by-passing all our intellectual history and classical works on governance and social order. Just because we have a seventy year period of peace in the west, doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be potential wars in the future for power and what not. And I bet you don’t know what absolute justice even means.

    I appreciate your passion and concern for Muslim matters. At least you see there are problems because some Muslims today out of ignorance cannot realise that the problem is within them and not the ‘kuffar’ west. But that doesn’t justify your secular stance and western attitude to the issue. And what kind of secularism do you want. The secularism of France? The secularism of majid Nawaz who says we shouldn’t teach religion in schools?

    It’s not black and white. It’s not democracy or Isis. You have to understand that. Channel your concern into discussion rather than spontaneous out bursts.

  8. MashaAllah little brother. So happy to read about your future plans about learning and studying Islam. May Allah bless you. You are lucky and dear to Allah, see HE brought you back to Islam. Its a blessing, be always thankful to HIM and be a source of Hidayah for others as well. My brother, you are doing a great job by this blog already. Its also a jihad, jihad of the pen as they say. Dont worry about the distractors like the above one and those who want you to stay away from religion. Such people are either ahmadis or secular liberals.
    Best wishes and many prayers for you and your family. May Allah guide Ahmadis too. Amen.

  9. Remember that no true and sincere Muslim will advise you to stop guiding others. Only people with ill hearts will discourage you. Speak and practise the truth and be a torch bearer. You have a bright future ahead (both in deen and dunya), in sha Allah.

  10. Salaam
    I did`nt discourage anyone to speak and practice truth,on the contrary I asked him to tell the world about the real Islam.He is discussing trivial things with the zeal and claim that Allah has appointed him to do that.The question is if his blogg have any islamic value.He is a young man with passion and dedication to serve Islam and looking at his way of arguing I can say if properly guided he can do that.I suggested him some topics but sadly he do`snt want to try them.He is so obsessed with the thought of showing the wold how evil Mirza sahib was?Well if you are bound to pick only filth from others work you find only filth.If I refer here to Quran which says that only rightous find something good from it and other find only dirt according to their wish you will not agree with me.
    Jihad with sword is only a defensive war.Jihad with sword was allowed only to protect synogogs,temples,churches and mosques.
    Islam means submission and peace.Aslamo alekum; may peace be with you.
    Allah has created muslim and others universal brotherhood includes mankind not only muslims.
    Secularism does not mean negation of deen neutral and equal rights,State has no religion meaning it respects every religion.

    You believe chanda in Ahmaddiyyat is stealing from the poor we believe its essential to help needies, build mosques and meeting causes of Islam.We pay it with pleasure and hope to get reward from our Lord.Unluckly others do not understand this great cause because they are deprived of the khlaphat instituion.
    I`m sorry to say that you have inclination to radicalism which is not good for you your family and Islam.
    Allah aap ko apni panah mein rakhey hoping you understand urdu.


  11. Waassalam

    So your true identity has shown. Bushra was right in predicting who you are.

    I told you time and time again, this website is only dedicated to countering Ahmadiyyat. I’m not going to start talking about mechanics and what not. Like I said, my understanding of Islam is little, and therefore cannot start now. I have just gotten out of a cult for god sakes.

    Do You know how hard it is to live in a cult? You know how hard it is for your entire family to be fooled and deceived by corrupt people?

    The people at the top don’t give a toss about the normal Ahmadi. They waste money like its for free. You know how mentally painful it is for an Ahmadi to get out of this cult?

    Do I have inclination to radicalism?

    What about the Takfeer of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and his son? What about Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wishing for the destruction of mankind with a destructive disease (plague)? What about him calling Muslims sons of prostitutes? What about him calling Hindus cowards? What about him writing down one thousand curses to his opponents? What about the over 100 death threats? What about when he celebrates the assassination and suffering of his opponents?

    What about Mahmud Ahmad saying you should not wish the mercy of Allah onto Muslims who have passed away?

    And chanda is not stealing?

    Is it not stealing when u convince people that 81 million converted to Ahmadiyyat in a single year?

    You know they spent over £5 million on horses in Islamabad? Do you know about the new construction going on there so Masroor Ahmad can enjoy his luxurious life?

    What Khilafat institute?

    So after all this, now you want to reveal your identity?

    Where’s your true Islam and saved sect? What about world war three?

    What an absolute joker

    You know what. I’m not even gunna reply.

    I’m sick of you coward Ahmadis.

    What a bunch of whining losers you are.

    Get back to the darkness or stand up and defend your imposter.

  12. Your blog reminds me of cult girl’s-minus the juicy stuff, of course. It is another platform for all those who are searching and doubting…and I guess there are plenty out there…

  13. Tahira, in my experience (based on hushed whisperings of friends and family) there are many out there with the same doubts and questions. Few have the courage to confront or act upon what they know deep down because of family reasons and because their entire social set up revolves around the Jamat (like me). Others might be lazy or indifferent when it comes to truly exploring their beliefs. Still, there are also many who are brainwashed (like I once was) and unable to see it for what it is, particularly as it’s packaged so well as the palatable version of Islam. The sad reality is that even though we live in an age of critical thinking, if you really want to believe in something you will find a way to justify it. Letting go of a belief that you hold so dearly as the apex of truth is immensely difficult.

  14. Dreamcatcher, you’re spot-on. My biggest fear is that once I fully embark on this journey, I’d probably end up renouncing everything. Besides I don’t think I can let go of something that used to be so dear to me at. I envy those members of the jamaat who seem to be content with their situation and don’t have to go through this inner conflict.

  15. It certainly is tough but don’t let fear hold you back. It is important for your own peace of mind to question and arrive at a place where you are no longer uncertain and plagued with doubts (wherever that journey ultimately leads you). I think with these things once the seed of doubt has been sown and your instinct is telling you something isn’t right you can’t really turn back. It is only denial borne of fear that holds us back from even admitting to ourselves where we have reached in our journey.

    I too sometimes found myself envying those who seemed certain about ahmadiyyat but then the pity I felt for them for having devoted their entire lives to what I feel deep in my heart is a deception and the ugly truth about what it really seems to be far outweighed any of that.

    I started my journey as an inquisitive teenager who wanted to know everything about ahmadiyyat because I believed it was a special gift to be cherished and shared and so I wanted to explore it. I believed we were misunderstood. I believed our version of Islam was kinder, more rational and unified. I believed we were better than the rest who had bought into the hateful and illogical rhetoric of maulvis. Ultimately it was that journey of discovery over many years that I started with totally different intentions that lead me to where I am today. I can only hope for the courage of people like Hani Taher who despite being so tied into this system managed to extricate himself from it and held truth above his own comfort. Think about it- it takes an extraordinary kind of courage to admit that you have ‘wasted’ so many years of your life on a lie.

    For any Ahmadi who might read this, one simple request- try to have an open mind. Don’t go through life blindly accepting the narrative that you have been fed your whole life and all the ahmadi PR and marketing- just because it makes you feel comfortable and sounds pleasant. I only ask because I have been there too. Yes, I am asking the opposite of what Sharif Odeh said to you in his response/rant to Hani Taher in which he said one should have the kind of faith of previous generations who never questioned anything. What is the harm in questioning? If you possess the truth it will only leave you more certain of it. If it is a falsehood well then…

    The jamat will eventually have to stop burying it’s head in the sand, accept that times have changed and face the fact that many Ahmadis feel disaffected with the way things are. You only need to look at what is happening in the world these days to see what happens when people feel this way. This power structure won’t be immune from challenge and upheaval, although I expect it will probably be more of a quiet and gradual fading out rather than a dramatic revolution. There are doubtless many devout ahmadis but I think there are just as many that are on the fringes and the only thing that is holding them to this is social element which over time will probably become less important. Come to my local lajna meeting and the only ladies that turn up regularly are those that are of a certain age or people that have arrived recently from Pakistan. Why is it that the only time I see the young girls of my generation who I was raised with is at jalsa (the ultimate social gathering)? I don’t think everyone is necessarily interested in or questioning the theology- some people have other priorities and some are a bit dubious but happy to do the bare minimum to keep their membership. Then there are those who believe ahmadiyyat to be true but are unimpressed with the politics, the khalifa, the nizam. Others might be tired of constantly being dictated to, harassed to attend endless meetings or having their pockets emptied! This is what people are talking about in their homes away from your scrutiny. There are a multitude of reasons that people are being driven away and in my experience the dissatisfaction is growing day by day.

    Sorry for the essay. It is cathartic to be able to share your thoughts when you live amongst such a stifling community. Perhaps we should set up a doubters/truthseekers/on the way out support group 🙂

  16. Sorry if I’m stealing the thread. I just couldn’t hold myself to be honest. But do continue this discussion, it’s extremely important for oneself, and Ahmadi on-lookers, I’m sure there are ones here and there.

    But I would like to comment on two aspects. One being doubt, the second being the emotional attachment

    Let’s start with doubt. I have a few confessions to make. I’m still a doubter (kind of), but I doubted much, and I did a lot of soul searching throughout this year and a half. It would be stupid of me to say that one shouldn’t doubt. Or that it’s unnatural. Especially in this day and age, where communication bas magnificently transformed life, you would be naive not to doubt, question, or explore. Unless your a simple person (maybe like the naive Ahmadi who has strong belief in Ahmadiyyat, and this could no doubt be the case for other believers, Muslims included). For me, doubt really crippled me, and I’m not saying this to put anyone off or anything, but I did become an agonist/atheist for a long time. The different thing about me though was that I didn’t hate the people, I may’ve hated the corrupt people at the top running the machine, but I certainly didn’t show any hatred to any ahmadis. In fact, I still talk to them, and some even know I run this website. I however channeled my anger towards God. Because for me, he was the one who create us this way, plus, what’s all this disorder and dismay about? Is faith really that dubious? But anyway, these were the kind of doubts I was having. Even with ahmadis that I talk to now, and some of them are on their way to making a better future for themselves, some of them just randomly say ‘I’m lost’ or ‘what if everything is wrong’. I would always comfort them and tell them that’s a perfectly natural thing to ask. But this doubt thing, even with Muslims is a big no no. Dawah man, (aka wasteman) had a go at shaykh Yasir qadhi for admitting going into a doubtful phase after studying Islam with an oriental eye at Yale university. In fact, for Muslims, doubt is just waswasa, just the shaytan speaking to you. That’s what a lot of atheists have a problem with, although this discussion is long, and the theist would win. For me, doubt to a certain extent is good. In fact, there is a book by the title ‘doubt: a history: the great doubters and their legacy of innovation from Socrates and Jesus to Thomas Jefferson and Emily Dickinson’. I didn’t read it, but apparently, Jesus doubted. Leaving prophets behind for a second though. One of my favourite theologian/thinker/mystic/Muslim is imam al ghazali (d.111). He at the time was studying and teaching at the world’s most prestigious university in Damascus. He was at the centre of the world you could say. Great thinkers/philosophers lived at his time. His all time rival were one of our greatest philosophers Ibn rushd (averroes) and ibn sina. Both including al ghazali became very important figures in the western world. He wrote a famous ‘tahafut al falasipha’, meaning ‘the incoherence of philosophers’, and ibn rushd replied with ‘tahafut atahafut’ meaning ‘the incoherence of incoherence’ in reply to al ghazali. As you can tell, al ghazali was very important in our Islamic history. He defended our classical works. He read the books of philosophy including Plato and Aristotle, he inculcated some of it in his work. Anyway, when he reached around 40 (I believe), he went through a major faith crisis. He sought consolation in philosophy, he couldn’t find it, and he sought consolation even in our theological works, and couldn’t find it. Eventually, he found his soul in Islamic mysticism known as Sufism. In the likes of al-juwayni (mystic), he was able to reclaim his faith. He lived a beautifully humble life travelling the Muslim world, and wrote volumes of books under the title ‘ihya 3loom deen’ (revival of Islamic sciences). He’s the most read scholar in the Muslim world today. His doubt essentially made him one of the greatest men in history. In my own humble short experience, I think doubt to a certain extent could be a good thing, but there’s a point where you have to plug off, and say that’s enough. I think you can’t stay in the doubt phase, it’s really an ugly place to be in. Either u choose to believe, and let your questions be answered on the day of judgement, or embark on a different journey. And I hope everyone who is in doubt finds solace in their life.

    As for the emotional aspect. I won’t talk too much cause I already wrote a lot. If you notice those who are most fierce against Ahmadiyyat, it’s generally those who had no real connection with its members. This is directed at khatme nubuwwat, but generally can be extended to cult girl and shahid. The emotional attachment is vital. I glorified Masroor Ahmad, I wrote letters, I even made my atfal write letters to him, I used to cry in bai’at, I would do leafleting (Tabligh) in the rain. Despite all this, I still had doubts as to why every Ahmadi was literally dead, and I looked to my Muslim brethren and I saw a completely different picture to what I would draw myself of them. At the end of the day, I chose this path, and I forced my doubts on myself and decided to pursue another path. I might be special in terms of controlling my emotions, but nevertheless, there are people like me who could reclaim their faith after religious cults.

    But when I look at ahmadis who have the same doubts. I see a clear cowardess attitude to a cult that is clearly destroying people’s lives, but as time goes on, I do feel more sympathy to those who just can’t let go despite everything they see. I still get pissed off at them, but at the end of the day, there’s nothing I could do about it. Humans are weak. Very very weak to do, or bother about change.

  17. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this and the example of Imam Ghazali which I found very interesting.

    To be so certain in your beliefs – whether you are a believer who is certain you have the monopoly over the truth or an atheist who categorically denies that God exists, you have to possess a certain kind of arrogance. The truth is none of us really know. The best we can do is try to be objective (i.e. remove our emotional attachment) and examine things carefully from EVERY angle (and not just the one that confirms our own beliefs) before reaching our own conclusion on what we think (not know) is probably true. And yes it can be a very uncomfortable process to examine long held beliefs in this way and it is something that you won’t find encouraged much.

    As you rightly said for some people the emotional attachment is too strong to put aside. Some are so invested in this “rightly guided persecuted “love for all” sect” narrative to ever be open to listening to anything unfavourable about the Jamat. Like you I once really believed in it because I was taught that it was everything great and good and that we should shut ourselves off from any criticisms of it. Then I grew up and I lost that sense of naivety. I listened to the boring rambling speeches of “Huzoor” and found nothing inspirational. I asked questions and received the most unsatisfactory responses. I grew tired of hearing that my search for the truth was because of the influence of shaitan.
    That people refuse to consider the possibility that this could just be a cult/ a business/ a monarchy established by the Mirza khandaan to build up their own power and wealth, still perplexes me. Like you I don’t hate Ahmadis, it just makes me so sad to see people deceived and I just wish they would try to open their minds even just a little to the idea that this isn’t what it might seem.

  18. Whoever thinks he knows God, he is the furthest from him. Whether be it Isis, wahabi salafis, ahmadis or others. They all tend to either be cults, or end up in absolute despotism.

    I’ll leave you with Rumi’s quote

    “Why do you stay in prison when the door is so wide open?”

  19. I concur with you.
    Taking up your point on doubts, I believe it is beneficial and helps you to connect with your inner spirituality but on the other hand it leaves you completely disconnected; I have accepted that I cannot believe in one absolute truth; The only truth lies within yourself and no institution or doctrine can impose their own version on you; unless, you do feel a certain attachment towards it. The way the jamaat conducts its principles is just not bearable. I used to be a very active member when I truly believed that we possess the ultimate truth and that our teachings are infallible. But due to my search, every community involvement led me even farther away. I suddenly saw the cracks in my own belief system. I told my father about my doubts and he told me to suppress them as there is nowhere else to go. He said I won’t find solace anywhere once I leave my “roots”. And I have to admit, he is partly right or at least that is how I was raised: the jamaat was my home and anchor. But I am not searching for something outside the community as an alternative. I simply don’t want to be associated with it anymore. The dogma, hypocrisy and oppressive atmosphere leave no space for individual fulfilment.
    You’re right Dreamcatcher, we should be able to raise our voice. It’s liberating.

  20. Now come on Tahira

    You sound like a defeated person.

    Don’t believe anyone who says you lost out.

    I might be mistaken here, and forgive me if I am, but it seems you got sucked into the manipulative ways of the Jamat, and somehow came to the realisation that it’s all dark out there.

    I know a cult can leave many people in scars, and can sometimes destroy people’s lives, but I’m sure there’s enough freedom in the west to allow you some space to explore more things that you might be inclined to.

    And what “roots” are you referring to? It’s like you were in heaven, or a magical island. You left no abode, you left a place of ugliness, sternness and darkness. This experience shouldn’t put you down in any way shape or form.

    I’ve been told by ahmadis that I will be destroyed. You know my title ‘ahmadis just dug their own graves”. That was actually a revenge tactic to a close Ahmadi friend who said that phrase to me when I told him I no longer believe in Ahmadiyyat. I lost practically all my friends. Although I speak to some, most despise me. And you won’t believe the betrayal stories I had to go through, and for someone at my age to witness all that is something special in a way.

    I could have let their scare mongering tactics that are born out of fear and ignorance get to me, but I resisted, and not only did I resist and chose my own path, but I decided to make a firm path, and build my own future by starting with this blog.

    I’ve come across many people who lost so much, and some of the stories I’ve received of ex-ahmadis are truly terrifying, and I hope nobody goes through any of what some went through. But I attest that some people just couldn’t make it, and others despite horrendous challenges were able to pick themselves back up and start all over again, stronger than ever.

    How do you think Hani Tahir felt when he realised he’s been preaching falsehood for over 15 years?

    And what do you think would have happened if he wasn’t courageous enough, or if he thought to himself there’s no point going through the effort?

    Some people grow out of difficulty, and some are broken forever. And I hope and pray you are not among the latter.

  21. Tahira, your posts really resonate with me. If you ever want to talk (with full anonymity/ using an alias) I’m sure trueahmadiyya can put us in touch.

  22. Salaam
    I just want to tell you that if you people want to leave Ahmadiyyat ok be a good Muslim instead,pray to Allah and ask Him to guide you for the right path.Say daily namaz and recite Quran regularly especially the three Qulls.Allah aap ko rehmat key saiey mein rakhey aur her tara ke shr sey mahfooz rakhey.

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