Mirza Tahir lies and calls Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a liar

Lies, lies, lies…..and more lies….and more deceit, I’m getting so dizzy by all this madness.

As we discussed earlier, the official stance of Ahmadis, is that MGA claimed prophethood in 1901 even though there is no evidence whatsoever to back up this theory. Nonetheless, it has to be taken into account that he was the ‘promised messiah’ in 1891. So from 1891-1901, for 10 years straight, he kept on denying his prophethood while cursing and making Takfeer on those who profess any type of prophethood. But when he claimed Messiahship, Muslims accused him of claiming prophethood also, because the hadith necessitates for the Messiah to be a prophet. To that, he replied with

“Therefore, I have not the least hesitation in stating my meaning in another form for the conciliation of my Muslim brethren, and that other form is that in every place instead of the word nabi the word muhaddas should be understood, and the word nabi should be regarded as having been deleted.” (declaration issued on 3 February 1892 in Lahore)

“I say it repeatedly that these words rasul and mursal and nabi undoubtedly occur about me in my revelation from God, but they do not bear their real meanings. And just as these do not, similarly the Promised Messiah being called nabi in Hadith is not meant in a real sense…This very thing has been disclosed to me that the doors of real prophethood are fully closed after the Khatam an-nabiyyin, the Holy Prophet Muhammad. According to the real meaning, no new prophet nor an ancient prophet can now come.” (Siraj Munir, pages 2 – 3, published March 1897)

No doubt, Ahmadis do believe he rejected his prophethood in the period of his supposed Messiaship which started in 1891. But here’s the spin, and here’s where Tahir Ahmad came along and called him a liar according to hadith. This was part of an answer in a Q and A he gave not long before his death

“If the Promised Messiah is true, he had to be a prophet, because the Holy Prophet(saw) himself said, that the Messiah that is to come will be a prophet. So suppose the Promised Messiah said ” I am not a prophet”, the Holy Prophet(saw) would be declaring the Promised Messiah as a liar, because He would say ” Have you not read the Hadith of Muslim?, I have myself named the messiah to appear in this Ummah (Muslim World) as a prophet.” So if anybody claims that he is a messiah, and not a prophet, he is definitely a liar, you cannot prove him otherwise.”

So according to Mirza Tahir Ahmad, if MGA said “I am not a prophet” while claiming Messiahship, he’s a liar according to Muhammad (pbuh). So here we have it folks, not only did MGA say he wasn’t a prophet while claiming to be the promised Messiah, he cursed and made Takfeer upon those who claim prophethood, and not only that, he interpreted the word ‘nabi’ in the hadith to be metaphorical and not in the real sense as Tahir Ahmad took it.

Let’s suppose that MGA after denying his prophethood claimed he was a prophet in 1901, according to Tahir Ahmad, he would have been a liar for 10 complete years because he denied his prophethood while claiming Messiahship.

But Ahmadis have managed to come up with a new theory to avoid this embarrassment. They say he was a prophet from the 1880’s when he was writing the first Barahin Ahmadiyya. So he was always a prophet, but he kind of rejected his prophethood in the real sense until 1901. Even reading that makes me confused. Normally, when Ahmadis are confronted with difficult questions and they actually want an answer, they email a Jamat official to get an answer. The response usually is a 40,000 word-long thesis which makes no sense whatsoever. Not just because it’s structured with complexity, or because of its length, but because the person writing it doesn’t understand what’s going on, he’s just forced to come up with a solution somehow, even if he has to start talking about geometry or cows. That gets a lot of Ahmadis frustrated, and that’s why you don’t see any of them doing dawah, or bothered by all this theology stuff. Just Khalifa Khalifa Khalifa all day long…..

That’s still not a theory in case any Ahmadi gets excited. Let’s suppose he was a prophet from the 80’s but didn’t understand it fully, or rejected it out of humbleness. The first statement I presented above was actually a reply to Maulvi Abdul Kareem who accused MGA of announcing prophethood after he announced his position as the Messiah. In reply to this Shaykh, he said to delete the word ‘nabi’ from my writings, and that it doesn’t mean anything. Isn’t that enough to suggest that he was rejecting his prophethood, why didn’t he say ‘yes, he’s right, I’m a prophet’, or at the very least, explaining that he was not a law bearing prophet, but a prophet without law.

Even if Ahmadis want to say that he was denying his position as a law bearing prophet only, why didn’t he clarify it when he was accused of claiming prophethood by Abdul Kareem? How come he interpreted the hadith metaphorically rather than literally? Who does that? He’s really making a joke out of revelation in this episode. You’ve been called a prophet from 1880 at the very least, but you kept on rejecting it for over 20 years. Was it that hard? Is this the long awaited Messiah, who denied his prophethood for over 20 years? Is this the person who will establish peace and Justice, is he the one who destroyed Christianity and killed the metaphoric pig? He couldn’t even clarify his prophethood for decades, and you Ahmadis want to convince me he’s worth a google search!!!

At the end of the day, Mirza rejected his prophethood, cursed and made Takfeer on whoever claims prophethood while being the ‘Messiah’. According to Tahir Ahmad, he’s a liar according to Muhammad (pbuh) because from his own words ‘suppose the Promised Messiah said “I am not a prophet”, the Holy Prophet (saw) would be declaring the Promised Messiah as a liar’. So that’s the crux of the argument, it’s done, whether you want to take it to China or Brazil, it wouldn’t work. You’ve played yourself….

Now, it’s not fair for Tahir Ahmad to get the glory for calling his granddad a liar. So it’s only fair if I balance things out and show Tahir Ahmad a liar in that same excerpt from a Q and A session he had not long before his death. I’ll expose this hypocrite too, because at the end of the day, it does run in the family. Tahir Ahmad goes onto call all Muslims Kuffar and outside the fold of Islam for rejecting a new prophet. I’ve heard him on other occasions, probably when the camera was rolling saying Muslims are Muslims and so on and so forth, all these hypocrites, as soon as they are questioned publicly, talk in a total different manner. As MGA kept on telling his followers of his prophethood, when asked, he rejected. Similarly with Tahir Ahmad, he may appear on tape saying Muslims are Muslims, but in this Q and A, he certainly does not say any of that, and makes his case crystal clear. Here, he explains it as

Yet according to the Holy Prophet, Muslims need Imam Mahdi and are waiting for Imam Mahdi… If you should think of it now, you will be surprised that Muslims belief and Ahmadis beliefs are exactly the same. Not an iota of difference can be proved between our two beliefs.

All Muslims believe that Imam Mahdi is going to be appointed by Allah, and is not going to be elected by the Muslims….However this is one part of the belief. The other part of the belief is that whoever refuses to accept him will become kafir. The entire Ummah believes in these two things except the Chakaralvis and the Ahle Quran. The rest of the Ummah believe that Imam Mahdi will be appointed by Allah himself, and there will not be an election. They also believe that Imam Mahdi, once he is appointed, will be the imam for the whole Ummah and for the whole universe. Whoever denies him, and whoever opposes him would go out of the pale of Islam.

So now only one question is left, Has the Imam Mahdi appeared or not?

Muslims declare Ahmadis as non-muslims, because we believe in a new prophet. If we are kafirs because of this, Muslims belief being exactly the same as Ahmadis, every Muslim is therefore a Kafir!

Such is the example of those who lie unto Allah; disgraced in this world and the hereafter.

What Tahir Ahmad just said there is what Ahmadis do today. When asked if they call us Kafir, they say no, as long as you say you are Muslim, you are Muslim. Then  you ask them about rejecting revelation and prophets, they say ‘what will be the condition of someone when the Mahdi comes and he rejects him’, so the Muslim replies ‘Kafir’, then the Ahmadi shouts with joy ‘see, you said it, I didn’t say it’. Then the Muslim asks him why he just doesn’t say we are Kafir openly, the Ahmadi has nothing to do but go back in the box of darkness where he/she belongs. Such is the example of hypocrites.

After reading all of this, think Ahmadis, think for God’s sake, what excuse will you give on the day of judgement?

 

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13 thoughts on “Mirza Tahir lies and calls Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a liar

  1. Another set of lies, based on splendid powers of misunderstanding.

    The whole debate of when Hazrat Messiah Maood(as) became prophet and why did not rejected his prophethood till 1901 revolves around one simple question, that is

    Who is a prophet? What is in a man which makes him Prophet?

    Promised Messiah (as) had the special definition of prophet in mind when he kept rejecting claims of the being prophet. What was that definition?

    He (as) wrote in one of his letter

    But as the meaning of the Prophet in the Islam is of such a Person who brings a complete new religion Law or cancel some of the Commandments of the previous law Or they are not considered a part of old religion And have direct relationship to Almighty God without the blessing of any other Prophet. So one must be careful and does not take such meanings of word “RASSOL and NABI” which are used in my revelations. This is because Quran is our book, Muhammad(saw) is our prophet and our religion is nothing but what Islam. We beleive that hazrat Muhammad (saw) is the Khatam ul Anbiya and Quran is “Khata mul Kitab” Al- Hakam 17th August1899, page 6

    Hazrat Messiah Maood(as) considered above as the defiantion of the Prophet, and according to this definitions He(as) was not and is not a prophet.

    He (as) always denied of being such a “Nabi” which brings a new law, or have any relation with the God without the blessing of Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (saw).

    What happened after 1901? Why he (as) started calling himself a prophet then?

    In the revelations ever since the Brahen e Ahmadiya, hazrat Messiah Maood(as) was being called as “Nabi” again and again. For the long time, due the definition I have stated about, hazrat Messiah Maood(as) kept interpreting it in the literal meaning of prophet that is “one who make prophecies by getting knowledge from God”

    However in the 1891, God cleared to him (as) that the real definition of the prophet is just this

    “No one has pondered over the real meanings of the NABI, The definition of the NABI are just a person who receives revelation from the God and is blessed with God talking to him. Bringing Law is not a necssary condition of being a NABI And also it is not necessary for him NOT TO BE A FOLLOWER OF SOME LAW BEARING prophet. So calling such a believer as a NABI is not forbidden in Islam (Braheen volume 5 page 306)

    Also he (as) stated

    It is the God TERM that he uses the name NABI for a person with whom he talks A LOT and in his revelations he revealed knowledge of UNSEEN to him

    now see, the only change here is in the definition of word NABI

    Before 1891, definition of Nabi was

    ” A person who brings a new law, or cancel some old religious laws, or not the follower of the law bearing prophet” </b.

    And after 1891, he (as) stated the definition of the Nabi as

    "One who get a large quantity of revelations from the Almighty God and gets the knowledge of Unseen in it"

    Consistent Claim of Promised Messiah Maood(as)

    After having learnt the two different definitions of the word “Nabi” from the writing of Promised Messiah Maood(as) before and after 1891, we need to see what was the claim of the hazrat Messiah Maood (as) since 1880.

    if we set aside his claim of being a prophet or not being a prophet, and just ponder on what qualities he(as) claimed to have since 1882 then we see the following silent points.
    <b?
    1. He (as) always claimed of relieving revelations from God
    2. He (as) had the great quantity of knowledge of unseen in his revelations ( prophecies about plague, about destruction of his opponents like Lekhram, Aathm, blessings about his followers, Miracles of acceptance of prayers etc)
    3. He (as) revelations contained the word NABI again and again.

    Hence we see he (as), according to the definition of Nabi as stated in Braheen Ahmadiay volume 5, was always a prophet since 1882. He (as) just kept calling himself not a NABI because of the old definition of a NABI which he(as) had in his mind till 1891. i.e.

    “No one has pondered over the real meanings of the NABI, The definition of the NABI are just a person who receives revelation from the God and is blessed with God talking to him. Bringing Law is not a necssary condition of being a NABI And also it is not necessary for him NOT TO BE A FOLLOWER OF SOME LAW BEARING prophet. So calling such a believer as a NABI is not forbidden in Islam (Braheen volume 5 page 306)

    But when God clarified to him (as) the real definition of the prophet, he changed his view about his being a prophet.

    Hence there is no contradiction in his writing. Only a change of calling himself because of the changed/Clarified definition of the word NABI.

  2. But before I write that detail, Can you tell me your view about this question?

    Can it be possible that Prophet misunderstand something?
    Can it be possible that someone else know few things better than a Prophet?
    Can God tell one prophet something which he does not not tell someother prophet?

  3. I see you have started your own blog. Nice to see some effort applied by Ahmadis.

    But to your reply, I have already addressed it in my blog

    here it is “Even if Ahmadis want to say that he was denying his position as a law bearing prophet only, why didn’t he clarify it when he was accused of claiming prophethood by Abdul Kareem? How come he interpreted the hadith metaphorically rather than literally? Who does that? He’s really making a joke out of revelation in this episode. You’ve been called a prophet from 1880 at the very least, but you kept on rejecting it for over 20 years. Was it that hard? Is this the long awaited Messiah, who denied his prophethood for over 20 years?”

    He should have clarified it to the shaykh in 1892, and not say ‘cross out the word nabi’, or the word nabi in the hadith is not in the real sense.

    Lahoris believe he never claimed prophethood. If he was a prophet from 1882, then why didn’t his followers call him ‘O prophet’ like our messenger was called ‘ya rasul allah’. If his position was higher than the position of Isa (as) who was glorified in the Quran, then why wasn’t he proud of calling himself a prophet. If Allah called him a prophet like Isa (as), what’s the harm in calling yourself one. With that logic, the prophethood of Isa (as) was not real, and that he’s only called a prophet in the metaphoric sense. Do you see what happens when you play around with terminology?

    Surprising how this issue, such a critical issue could not be made clear by MGA himself. He kept on saying I’m not a prophet, but at the same time saying yes. When confronted by that same hadith, he rejected time and time again, and most times before 1901, he rejected not based on law bearing and non law bearing prophet, but based on the fact that no prophet can come after. Not only that, but because he believed he had communication with God, and based on that he can prophesies, but that does not mean he’s a prophet. He says this for example after 1901

    They say….you have claimed prophethood, but I say: This is only a verbal expression. The prophet is he who prophesies, so what should we call the one who has communication with Allah? (Al Hakam, volume 9, number 39, 10/11/1905, page 3)

    ………..

    The questioner: Do you claim prophethood?

    MGA: The righteous salaf all kept on believing the chain of divine communication is continuous in this Ummah…So I am a nabi from that perspective.

    The questioner: So if it was possible for a prophet to come in Islam, then who came before you?

    MGA: This question should not be raised to me but to the prophet (Muhammad (pbuh)) because the name nabi was given to one person only, and this name wasn’t given to someone before, so I am not responsible in responding to this question. (Bdir, volume 2, number 23, page 2-3, 7/6/1906)

    He said it over and over again that the word ‘nabi’ is not real, and metaphoric. Why didn’t he clarify it before if this was so complicated?

    He called himself a prophet because he though God was talking to him, and not because he was sent to mankind, keep that in your mind too. If he was a prophet from 1880 or whenever he received the word nabi, what was he doing all that time before he decided to make a community in 1889, and what was he doing all that time before he was the promised messiah. Was he a prophet before he claimed to be the messiah too?

    And finally, if he was always a prophet, what took place in 1901? More than 20 years after he had been a prophet

    Here is your second khalifa at it

    “The issue of prophethood became clear to him in 1900 or 1901, and as Ayk Ghalati Ka Izala (misconception removed) was published in 1901, in which he has proclaimed his prophethood most forcefully, it shows he made a change in his belief in 1901″

    Was it that hard for him to define prophethood. This definition of prophethood stands no ground in Islamic text by the way.

    He caused a huge split in 1914 surrounding this very topic itself. If he had clarified it from 1880, then what happened in 1901 that changed that? and why were there so many Ahmadis who did actually believe he was not a prophet, among them the famous Muhammad Ali. And a fight broke out in the mosque where upon MGA said “O ye who believe! Don’t raise your Voice above the voice of the Prophet.”

    Is it the fault of Lahoris, or MGA for playing with words?

  4. 1. A prophet misunderstanding something. I’m not sure about that one, prophets are people just like us. In terms of misunderstanding, I’ve heard the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) once saw a vision that Mecca was open fro pilgrimage, but when he went, the people refused him entry. I’ve heard this from an Ahmadi, that being true or not, I don’t know. If it was true, this could be a misunderstanding upon our prophet (pbuh). You can’t compare this to misunderstanding prophethood in itself. Like imagine our prophet 20 years into his reign and prophethood says ‘you know what guys, now I realise the word ‘nabi’ was actually metaphorical’. That is very absurd

    2. In terms of worldly knowledge, I think he isn’t as knowledgeable, and I don’t think he needs to. In terms of deen, he knows it much better than anyone else. So in the deen, he supersedes everyone

    3. Allah o alam (Allah knows best). Ahmadis often like to get in the mind of God, and they think he works around their clock, and their clock only. It’s part of being in a cult, they don’t realise there’s 7 billion people out there, and the Ahmadi alone without effort just gets his prayers answered through the blessings of Masroor Ahmad. If you want to know the plan of Allah, ask him on the day of judgement, as for now, nobody knows, and we shouldn’t indulge in such matters.

  5. You say

    here it is “Even if Ahmadis want to say that he was denying his position as a law bearing prophet only, why didn’t he clarify it when he was accused of claiming prophethood by Abdul Kareem? How come he interpreted the hadith metaphorically rather than literally? Who does that? He’s really making a joke out of revelation in this episode. You’ve been called a prophet from 1880 at the very least, but you kept on rejecting it for over 20 years. Was it that hard? Is this the long awaited Messiah, who denied his prophethood for over 20 years?”

    As I stated earlier, hazrat Messiah Maood(as) denied of prophethood because he believed in a different definition of the prophethood. When God clarified to him that real definition of the prophethood is different and also clarified to him that he (as) has always fulfilled that definitions of prophethood. He changed his stance about prophethood.
    Now coming towards your allegations. Crux of your torrents of allegation can simply be answered in one statement.
    Prophets of God know only as much as God tells them. It has happened with previous prophets as well when they said one thing for long time, and later on God made them changed that Stance. So your allegations are baseless and proves that you either does not know about the history of prophets or deliberately ignoring them.

    Now let me give some examples

    1. Change of Qibla.
    Change of Qibla is the prime example. Hazrat Muhammad (saw) kept offering toward Mosque Aqsa until, after one or two years of moving to the Madina.
    God says in Sura Al Baqra
    “The fools among the people (pagans, hypocrites, and Jews) will say, “What has turned them (Muslims) from their Qiblah [prayer direction (towards Jerusalem)] to which they used to face in prayer.” Say, (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) “To Allah belong both, east and the west. He guides whom He wills to the Straight Way.””

    Surely God should not have taken so much time to make hazrat Muhammad (saw) changed the Qibla. God knew one day he would make hazrat Muhammad (saw) change the Qibla. And Mecca, the house built for the worship and about which hazrat Ibrahim (as) prayed, will be made the Qibla of the Muslims for good. Why then it took God so long to tell Muslims to change Qibla? Hazrat Muhammad (saw) kept offering towards Aqsa Mosque till explicit order came from the God to change it. Is not this right? So I say same is what hazrat Messiah Maood (as) did, he kept himself following the old definition of prophet which, according to him, was

    “No one has pondered over the real meanings of the NABI, The definition of the NABI are just a person who receives revelation from the God and is blessed with God talking to him. Bringing Law is not a necessary condition of being a NABI And also it is not necessary for him NOT TO BE A FOLLOWER OF SOME LAW BEARING prophet. So calling such a believer as a NABI is not forbidden in Islam (Braheen volume 5 page 306) “

    Then when God clarified to him that he (as) is the prophet and that prophet means someone who gets lot and lot of revelations from God and God calls him Prophet. This definition was consistent with the hazrat Messiah Maood(as) claims as he(as) always maintained that he (as) is getting revelations from God and that he is a follower of hazrat Muhammad (saw) and that all his blessings are due to following Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (saw).
    So hazrat Messiah Maood (as) has the same qualities in him since 1880, before 1901 he called himself Muhadith because of those qualities in him. After 1901, he called himself a Prophet because of those qualities in him. So basically it was the change of the name to those group of Qualities.

    In a summary, If God can delayed telling hazrat Muhammad (saw) about the change of Qibla for about 15 years, God could have very well delayed explaining the real meaning of prophethood to the Messiah Maood(as).
    So do not be a fool by raising objection on Promised Messiah (as) because of change of claim of Prophethood from Muhadith, as Quran call those people FOOLS who raised objection on the change of Qibla. Do you wanna be the same fool?
    A Warning
    Before you raise objections on the hazrt Messiah Maood (as), beware that same allegation can be turned towards the change of Qibla of hazrat Muhammad (saw). Surely you would try best to defend it but, let me warn you, one day might come when consistently raising allegation on Messiah Maood(as) can take you to the point where you will feel even Islam is not worth of following. I say so because of my past experience with few old Ahmadies, who first left ahmadiyyat and started raising same baseless allegation on Promised Messiah (as), then later on they left Islam and became Atheist. May God protect you from that day and show you his right path. Ameen.

  6. He said it over and over again that the word ‘nabi’ is not real, and metaphoric. Why didn’t he clarify it before if this was so complicated?

    Already answered it. Hazrat Messiah Maood (as) had following definition of prophethood in mind.

    here it is “Even if Ahmadis want to say that he was denying his position as a law bearing prophet only, why didn’t he clarify it when he was accused of claiming prophethood by Abdul Kareem? How come he interpreted the hadith metaphorically rather than literally? Who does that? He’s really making a joke out of revelation in this episode. You’ve been called a prophet from 1880 at the very least, but you kept on rejecting it for over 20 years. Was it that hard? Is this the long awaited Messiah, who denied his prophethood for over 20 years?”

    According to this definition, no prophet could have come in Muslims. That is why he (as) interpreted as a “Not Real” or “Metaphorical”. But when this definition became void, and God told him that real definition of the prophet is just who follows hazrat Muhammad (saw) and get lot of revelation, he stopped saying words “Not Real” and Metaphorical about Prophethood.

  7. Was it that hard for him to define prophethood. This definition of prophethood stands no ground in Islamic text by the way.

    1. Who is prophet according to you then?
    2. This is the definition which hazrat Messiah Maood (as) had in his mind. Question about its validity does not matter.

  8. He caused a huge split in 1914 surrounding this very topic itself. If he had clarified it from 1880, then what happened in 1901 that changed that? and why were there so many Ahmadis who did actually believe he was not a prophet, among them the famous Muhammad Ali. And a fight broke out in the mosque where upon MGA said “O ye who believe! Don’t raise your Voice above the voice of the Prophet.”

    Is it the fault of Lahoris, or MGA for playing with words?

    Fault lies in Lahories and all who does not want to use their brain and just eager to raise objections only.

    Till the day of Qiyyamt, God will keep judging people with different things. 1914, it was this definition which was used to distinguished between Truthful and Liars. God have been judging you as well, and unfortunately you failed in that test.

    If God wanted to make life easy for the humans to know who is truthful in his claims, then he could have made hell and paradise visible in this world.How easy it would have been to decide truthfulness of prophets after watching prophets in paradise and their opponent in hell. But getting into the paradise requires you to pass teh judgment of the God. Alas, you have failed and you are raising objections which indirectly attack Islam and Quran as well. I feel sorry for you.

  9. You said

    That is why he (as) interpreted as a “Not Real” or “Metaphorical”. But when this definition became void, and God told him that real definition of the prophet is just who follows hazrat Muhammad (saw) and get lot of revelation, he stopped saying words “Not Real” and Metaphorical about Prophethood.

    ………….

    He said that awliya also receive revelation. So is the definition of prophethood based on the quantity of revelation received?

  10. You said before

    Hazrat Messiah Maood(as) considered above as the defiantion of the Prophet, and according to this definitions He(as) was not and is not a prophet.
    He (as) always denied of being such a “Nabi” which brings a new law, or have any relation with the God without the blessing of Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (saw).
    What happened after 1901? Why he (as) started calling himself a prophet then?
    In the revelations ever since the Brahen e Ahmadiya, hazrat Messiah Maood(as) was being called as “Nabi” again and again. For the long time, due the definition I have stated about, hazrat Messiah Maood(as) kept interpreting it in the literal meaning of prophet that is “one who make prophecies by getting knowledge from God”
    ………..

    There was no difference in 1891. Even ahmadis admit that. Nothing happened in 1891. What happened was that Muslims started believing he was a prophet, for Muslims, they don’t take ur interpretation of a prophet, it’s either ur a prophet or not. If MGA was a prophet in 1891, he would have clarified it, but he didn’t, and he interpreted the Hadith (calling Jesus a prophet) in the metaphoric sense, and that it had no meaning. That was after 1891, and even in 1892, he denied being any sort of prophet, and said the entire word should be deleted. Frankly enough, there was no change in 1891 in part of MGA, he had always called himself a nabi, but rejected its meaning.

    What changed was in 1901, this is according to your second khalifa. Your second khalifa said that he declared prophethood in 1901, and not in 1891. This is why u give evidence to ‘misconception removed’

    So your argument falls short. He kept on rejecting all types of prophethood until 1901 according to your second khalifa.

    So your second khalifa said he declared his prophethood in 1901, and your fourth khalifa calls him a liar for not declaring his prophethood in 1891.

    There is your answer

  11. My second and fourth caliph both believed, like I do and I explained, hazrat Messiah Maood (as) was the prophet since beginning of his claims.
    And as my 4th caliph believed he (as) was a prophet from beginning, your allegation is false. The way you are trying to twist my 4th caliph’s statement, is a futile effort.

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